5 Questions for My Seventh-day Adventist Friends
(I'll be using SDA, Adventist, Seventh-day Adventist throughout this post - I hope this is acceptable)
There's a large number of Seventh-day Adventist in the Cayman Islands. And if you've ever had a conversation concerning Christianity or the bible, specifically landing on or simply hinting at the topics of day of "worship" (Saturday vs. Sunday) and/or The Law(Ten Commandments) with a Seventh Day Adventist, you know to expect a gripping verbal battle, that too often ends unfruitfully. Disclaimer: this may or may not be the practice with all SDA's in other jurisdictions. But it seems to be a common dogma of Adventist on these Islands, to seek to engage in a sort of argumentative apologetic. Granted, discussions are rarely done well from either side. So I thought I would pose five questions to my Adventist friends, as a way, I hope, will stimulate better conversations and by God's grace, fortify a more faithful exegisis of the scriptures as the point of reference when those types of conversations occur.
I want to preface my questions, by asking two preliminary questions that are to act as bookends/points to remember, which will hold upright the five primary questions. Here are the two questions:
1. Is all of scripture "God breathed?"
2. Are you a better interpreter of the Old Testament than God is?
If the answer is "yes" to number one {then the full corpus of the biblical material is to be in view, when considering a single biblical text}, and if the answer for number two is "no" {then God's interpretation of his own, laws, covenants, etc. trumps all}. If we agree on this then continue reading, if not, save five to ten minutes of your day and continue no further.
1. Is it of any significance that Seventh-day Adventism, from its commencement (in the mid 1800's) is plagued with false prophesies and founded by false prophets?
This fact seems to rest very light on hearts of Adventist, with little to no gravitas paid to such a glaring blemish, when brought up. Are the many warnings to and fates of false prophets (and their followers) past and present (Duet. 18:18-22, Jer. 14:13-15, Ezek. 13:9, Matt.7:15, 2 Peter 2:1 etc.) being, at best overlooked, or worse ignored? Can the failed prophesy of William Miller (founder of SDA) be simply excused as a "mistake" knowing how God views such things (The Great Disappointment - October 22, 1844 - the day Christ was to return)? There was no recantation for the fail prophesy - shouldn't this call into question any teaching henceforth? Instead, The Great Disappointment was replaced by the doctrine of "investigative judgement." Its creator Ellen G. White proposed that "1844 marked the date that Christ began work of the final atonement to blot out a believers sins." There is no biblical reference for this teaching, which is still believed today by SDA's. What's more, Jesus' words on the cross "it is finished" (Jn. 19:30) and the Hebrew writers words "But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God" (Hebrews 10:12) clearly refute this doctrine. My Adventist friend, can you continue to claim biblical faithfulness and fervour when the established foundation and continued practice of your belief system is based on prophesies unrealised and unbiblical doctrines: Jesus is the Archangel Michael (Col. 1:15-20, Phil. 2:4-11); hell is not eternal (Rev 14:11); annihilation of the wicked (Lk 16:19-31, Matt 25:46) etc.? Is it ok to make prophesies, lead others in believing those prophesies and be wrong? If your saying that this is ok, are you also saying God is overreacting or that he is wrong?
2. Why is Seventh Day Adventism not visible in church history before the mid 1800's?
With the exception of the founders of SDA of course, this question scrutinizes the accuracy of the SDA's claims both biblically and historically within the body of Christ. Similar to Mormons and Jehovah's Witness, Seventh-day Adventism can trace its start to a person(s) and an event within the last 200-300 years. It's subsequent start also meant a new variation to the Christian narrative. It is safe to say that before the contributions of William Miller and Ellen G White, the aberrant beliefs (i.e. those listed in question one) of Seventh-day Adventist were never shared by Christians of the past.
Which begs another question - in Seventh-day Adventism's declaration of being God's one true church, what has become of those who lived before the inception of Seventh-day Adventism; those who lived before the incarnation; life; death; burial; and resurrection of Christ? Did not God through the Hebrew writer reveal, that they too were saved by faith in Christ and not the law (Hebrews 11 - The Hall of Faith)? Is it of any significance, that though possessing some similarities with historical, biblical Christianity, what makes a person truly an SDA, cannot be gleaned from the bible itself? What’s more, for the sake of canonicity, there cannot be traced a universal consensus at anytime before the 1800's among Christians on the beliefs held by SDA's.
3. Are Adventist partakers of God's grace?
*Now remember preliminary question 2* A claimed belief of Adventist, is that "salvation is by grace, and not works." Which all Christians would and should agree with. Grace, a gift, simply means - unmerited favour, correct? It is the act of giving something to someone, he/she does not deserve, and cannot earn (Eph. 2:8, 3:7). Faith, also a gift, is given by God to a regenerated person to believe in the gospel and thus be saved. God says through the apostle Paul:
Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love. (Galatians 5:2-6)
(please read slowly: all of Galatians with special attention to 2, 3, 4, 5, 6; all of Romans with special attention to 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 14; Hebrews 4, 5, 8, 9, 10; see also 1 Timothy 1:3-11, Colossians 2:16-23)
Now, Adventist will explain away this text by saying that Paul is talking about "circumcision" and not one of the ten commandments "written by the hand of God." If we were to concede to this interpretation, it stands to question - if circumcision "obligates one to keep the whole law", how much more does a commandment "written by the hand of God" obligate you to keep the whole law (i.e. the Sabbath, see also Jm. 2:10-11). Thus incurring the consequences outlined by the apostle. I've heard it said that "we (SDA's) keep the law because we love Jesus." God through the apostle declares that "Christ will be of no advantage to you............you have fallen from grace" I cannot imagine a more terrifying state than to be without Christ and Gods grace in this world, can you?
4. Where is the Gospel in Adventism?
A mentor of mine coined the phrase "God has one sermon!" One sermon that he has been preaching since the beginning of time, from Genesis to Revelations." That sermon is the gospel (see Peter and Stephen the Levite preaching the gospel from the OT Acts 2:22-41, Acts 7:1-60 also see Gal. 3:8). God through the apostle Paul stated that the gospel was of the “utmost importance” to the believer, not only in its life giving properties (Eph. 1:13, Rom. 10:10-15), but also in its life sustaining power as well (1 Cor. 15: 1-5). All Christians are in a maturation process of understanding the centrality of the gospel to every day life. For the Adventist, to seek to be perfected in the law is to have never picked up the gospel at all! Once the law has showed us our sins and or need for a saviour (Rom. 3:20, Rom. 7:7, Gal. 3:24), it is our response to the gospel in faith and repentance that saves us (Eph. 1:13, Rom. 1:16, Rom. 4:5) and it is our continuing in faith in that gospel that sustains and sanctifies us (1 Cor. 15:1-5). Have Adventist disqualified themselves from the immeasurable grace shown in the gospel? Have they placed themselves on a collision course with God and his wrath, by living in disobedience to gospel (2 Thess. 1:5-10)?
5. What will you do with this information?
I know this isn't a question akin to the others, I thought it wise to pause, to allow for some digestion. I wanted to take some time to appeal to you - after you read this post, before you do anything, please take some time to read your bible. Consider the passages I've mentioned. Spend some time in prayer, asking God for clarity and direction, if you feel my arguments warrant it. Please engage me in discussion, if there is something I perhaps missed or an area where I erred. I believe that these are serious questions for consideration, I hope you do too.
I'd like to thank you for taking the time to read this post and I pray that it blesses you.
Grace and Peace!
There's a large number of Seventh-day Adventist in the Cayman Islands. And if you've ever had a conversation concerning Christianity or the bible, specifically landing on or simply hinting at the topics of day of "worship" (Saturday vs. Sunday) and/or The Law(Ten Commandments) with a Seventh Day Adventist, you know to expect a gripping verbal battle, that too often ends unfruitfully. Disclaimer: this may or may not be the practice with all SDA's in other jurisdictions. But it seems to be a common dogma of Adventist on these Islands, to seek to engage in a sort of argumentative apologetic. Granted, discussions are rarely done well from either side. So I thought I would pose five questions to my Adventist friends, as a way, I hope, will stimulate better conversations and by God's grace, fortify a more faithful exegisis of the scriptures as the point of reference when those types of conversations occur.
I want to preface my questions, by asking two preliminary questions that are to act as bookends/points to remember, which will hold upright the five primary questions. Here are the two questions:
1. Is all of scripture "God breathed?"
2. Are you a better interpreter of the Old Testament than God is?
If the answer is "yes" to number one {then the full corpus of the biblical material is to be in view, when considering a single biblical text}, and if the answer for number two is "no" {then God's interpretation of his own, laws, covenants, etc. trumps all}. If we agree on this then continue reading, if not, save five to ten minutes of your day and continue no further.
1. Is it of any significance that Seventh-day Adventism, from its commencement (in the mid 1800's) is plagued with false prophesies and founded by false prophets?
This fact seems to rest very light on hearts of Adventist, with little to no gravitas paid to such a glaring blemish, when brought up. Are the many warnings to and fates of false prophets (and their followers) past and present (Duet. 18:18-22, Jer. 14:13-15, Ezek. 13:9, Matt.7:15, 2 Peter 2:1 etc.) being, at best overlooked, or worse ignored? Can the failed prophesy of William Miller (founder of SDA) be simply excused as a "mistake" knowing how God views such things (The Great Disappointment - October 22, 1844 - the day Christ was to return)? There was no recantation for the fail prophesy - shouldn't this call into question any teaching henceforth? Instead, The Great Disappointment was replaced by the doctrine of "investigative judgement." Its creator Ellen G. White proposed that "1844 marked the date that Christ began work of the final atonement to blot out a believers sins." There is no biblical reference for this teaching, which is still believed today by SDA's. What's more, Jesus' words on the cross "it is finished" (Jn. 19:30) and the Hebrew writers words "But when Christ had offered for all time a single sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God" (Hebrews 10:12) clearly refute this doctrine. My Adventist friend, can you continue to claim biblical faithfulness and fervour when the established foundation and continued practice of your belief system is based on prophesies unrealised and unbiblical doctrines: Jesus is the Archangel Michael (Col. 1:15-20, Phil. 2:4-11); hell is not eternal (Rev 14:11); annihilation of the wicked (Lk 16:19-31, Matt 25:46) etc.? Is it ok to make prophesies, lead others in believing those prophesies and be wrong? If your saying that this is ok, are you also saying God is overreacting or that he is wrong?
2. Why is Seventh Day Adventism not visible in church history before the mid 1800's?
With the exception of the founders of SDA of course, this question scrutinizes the accuracy of the SDA's claims both biblically and historically within the body of Christ. Similar to Mormons and Jehovah's Witness, Seventh-day Adventism can trace its start to a person(s) and an event within the last 200-300 years. It's subsequent start also meant a new variation to the Christian narrative. It is safe to say that before the contributions of William Miller and Ellen G White, the aberrant beliefs (i.e. those listed in question one) of Seventh-day Adventist were never shared by Christians of the past.
Which begs another question - in Seventh-day Adventism's declaration of being God's one true church, what has become of those who lived before the inception of Seventh-day Adventism; those who lived before the incarnation; life; death; burial; and resurrection of Christ? Did not God through the Hebrew writer reveal, that they too were saved by faith in Christ and not the law (Hebrews 11 - The Hall of Faith)? Is it of any significance, that though possessing some similarities with historical, biblical Christianity, what makes a person truly an SDA, cannot be gleaned from the bible itself? What’s more, for the sake of canonicity, there cannot be traced a universal consensus at anytime before the 1800's among Christians on the beliefs held by SDA's.
3. Are Adventist partakers of God's grace?
*Now remember preliminary question 2* A claimed belief of Adventist, is that "salvation is by grace, and not works." Which all Christians would and should agree with. Grace, a gift, simply means - unmerited favour, correct? It is the act of giving something to someone, he/she does not deserve, and cannot earn (Eph. 2:8, 3:7). Faith, also a gift, is given by God to a regenerated person to believe in the gospel and thus be saved. God says through the apostle Paul:
Look: I, Paul, say to you that if you accept circumcision, Christ will be of no advantage to you. I testify again to every man who accepts circumcision that he is obligated to keep the whole law. You are severed from Christ, you who would be justified by the law; you have fallen away from grace. For through the Spirit, by faith, we ourselves eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness. For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love. (Galatians 5:2-6)
(please read slowly: all of Galatians with special attention to 2, 3, 4, 5, 6; all of Romans with special attention to 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 14; Hebrews 4, 5, 8, 9, 10; see also 1 Timothy 1:3-11, Colossians 2:16-23)
Now, Adventist will explain away this text by saying that Paul is talking about "circumcision" and not one of the ten commandments "written by the hand of God." If we were to concede to this interpretation, it stands to question - if circumcision "obligates one to keep the whole law", how much more does a commandment "written by the hand of God" obligate you to keep the whole law (i.e. the Sabbath, see also Jm. 2:10-11). Thus incurring the consequences outlined by the apostle. I've heard it said that "we (SDA's) keep the law because we love Jesus." God through the apostle declares that "Christ will be of no advantage to you............you have fallen from grace" I cannot imagine a more terrifying state than to be without Christ and Gods grace in this world, can you?
4. Where is the Gospel in Adventism?
A mentor of mine coined the phrase "God has one sermon!" One sermon that he has been preaching since the beginning of time, from Genesis to Revelations." That sermon is the gospel (see Peter and Stephen the Levite preaching the gospel from the OT Acts 2:22-41, Acts 7:1-60 also see Gal. 3:8). God through the apostle Paul stated that the gospel was of the “utmost importance” to the believer, not only in its life giving properties (Eph. 1:13, Rom. 10:10-15), but also in its life sustaining power as well (1 Cor. 15: 1-5). All Christians are in a maturation process of understanding the centrality of the gospel to every day life. For the Adventist, to seek to be perfected in the law is to have never picked up the gospel at all! Once the law has showed us our sins and or need for a saviour (Rom. 3:20, Rom. 7:7, Gal. 3:24), it is our response to the gospel in faith and repentance that saves us (Eph. 1:13, Rom. 1:16, Rom. 4:5) and it is our continuing in faith in that gospel that sustains and sanctifies us (1 Cor. 15:1-5). Have Adventist disqualified themselves from the immeasurable grace shown in the gospel? Have they placed themselves on a collision course with God and his wrath, by living in disobedience to gospel (2 Thess. 1:5-10)?
5. What will you do with this information?
I know this isn't a question akin to the others, I thought it wise to pause, to allow for some digestion. I wanted to take some time to appeal to you - after you read this post, before you do anything, please take some time to read your bible. Consider the passages I've mentioned. Spend some time in prayer, asking God for clarity and direction, if you feel my arguments warrant it. Please engage me in discussion, if there is something I perhaps missed or an area where I erred. I believe that these are serious questions for consideration, I hope you do too.
I'd like to thank you for taking the time to read this post and I pray that it blesses you.
Grace and Peace!
Thank you for this post. It was very beneficial to me, seeing I seem to end up in this debates from time to time. I actually grew up Adventist until I was 14 years old. I know the flaws in their teaching at a deep level. I was converted and truly saved by grace at 20 years old. You've nailed the flaws on the head. I would like to add that the most frequent errors to Adventism are: 1. They don't read the bible for themselves. 2. They are works/law based. 3. They don't have any assurance. 4. They preach the Sabbath and not Jesus and the Gospel.
ReplyDeletePlease lift a sis up in prayer for patience and gentleness when I do get in one of these debates again.
Scriptures that I share with them are: Titus 3:4-5, Galatians 2:21, 1 John 5:13, Matthew 26:28, Ephesians 2:9, Hebrews 8:13 to name a few.